Arthur Baker Talks Recording and Mixing the "Very 80s" Empire Burlesque

The Empire Burlesque Interviews #2

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Arthur Baker and Bob Dylan. Photo from Rolling Stone.

Today, we continue our weeklong celebration of Empire Burlesque’s 40th birthday with an interview with the man responsible for the album’s distinctive sound (well, as much as anyone not named Bob Dylan): Arthur Baker. He’s officially listed as the album’s mixer, but in a lot of ways he served at the album’s de facto producer after he came in near the end of the sessions. That’s how Bob Dylan refers to him in Chronicles: “Producer.”

Baker was a rising star in 1985. His mixes and productions helped pioneer the early hip-hop sound (he co-wrote and produced Afrika Bambaataa’s influential “Planet Rock” in 1982) and he soon got work doing 12-inch dance mixes for mainstream artists like Bruce Springsteen, Cyndi Lauper, and New Order. All of which led him to Bob Dylan, at at time when Dylan was making a rare effort to sound more like current hits on pop radio and MTV. In 1985, that meant synthesizers and gated drums. I’m a fan of the '80s sound of Empire Burlesque more than most—and more than, perhaps, Baker himself. He is quick to note that, if he had worked on this album a few years later, it would have sounded quite different. But it’s worth pointing out that the least '80s-sounding song, and many fans’ favorite—“Dark Eyes”—also wouldn’t exist without Baker.

Below, Baker talks me through how he got the gig, what he brought to the Empire Burlesque sessions and sound, Dylan playing a Madonna song in the studio, and a lost 12-inch dub mix of “When the Night Comes Falling from the Sky.”

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Tell me how you got involved.

[A Columbia exec] called me up about, if I was interested in meeting with Dylan. I had done remixes for Cyndi Lauper and for Springsteen. After I did the Cyndi thing and I did the Bruce thing, I guess they felt comfortable in having me at least talk to Bob.

We had a meeting at the Exeter Hotel. When I first walked into the hotel room, there was no Bob. There’s lots of carts of eaten food. Obviously room service hadn’t been there for a while. It was pretty funny, sort of navigating through those carts.

Then we sat down. He had a table of cassettes, like 20 or 30 cassettes on a table, and he started playing me tracks. “What would you do with that?”

These cassettes are the songs he’s recorded already out in LA?

Yeah. Like one of them was “Danville Girl,” which we ended up not recording, but he played me that, he played me a few others. Because he had actually been working on this album for quite a while. You know, I sort of missed actually having met and been in the studio with all those amazing musicians. Because there were some incredible musicians on those tapes. I didn’t really meet any of them.

I mean [my job] was basically going in and finishing up tracks he had started. The only ones that we actually fully recorded were “When the Night Comes Falling from the Sky” and “Dark Eyes.” Those were songs I actually helped cut.

Was this hotel meeting like your audition?

I guess. Whatever I said, it was enough that he was like “Okay, sure.”

Soon he invited me over to Power Station. Power Station was the studio that I was comfortable at. I had been there a few times for other sessions. I had done the “Dancing in the Dark” remix there. I walk in and it’s Steve Van Zandt and Max Weinberg and Roy Bittan. He was using Springsteen’s band.

They did a version of [“When the Night”]. After they left, he said, “What do you think? Does it sound too much like Springsteen?” I go, “Well, yeah! You’re using his band. Isn’t that what you wanted?”

We recut it with Sly and Robbie, and I worked on it a bit and put percussion on it.

I mean, the bottom line is, it was the '80s. Looking back, even if it had been five years later, I would have done it totally differently. But I was known for adding a certain polish and arranging it with a rockier edge, with the big snare sound and stuff. There are many things I would have done differently.

So there’s two components to your work, from what I understand: The sessions at the Power Station and then the mixing. Are these all going on at the same time, or are these two separate things?

Two separate things. We moved over to Right Track, and we did a lot of the mixing there.

Is it you and Bob together, or are you going off and doing the mix on your own?

It wasn’t him like, “Here, you do it” and then leave. He did want to be part of it. He would come by, hang out.

He was very impatient. He said, “We mixed Blonde on Blonde in four days.” I tried to explain to him that was like an eight-track recording. There was less you could do in the mix. It was already pre-mixed.

One session in particular, he was just really impatient. I said, “Why don’t you go see a movie or something?” He went to see Mask, the Cher movie. He came back, and he was so impressed with that film, just talking about how great Cher was in it. “I didn’t think they make movies like that anymore,” he said. “I don’t think they ever made a movie like that!”

He would have a guitar. One time when we were mixing at Right Track, he was sitting on a coach in front of the desk. I’m mixing and I hear something really weird. I’m like, “God, is that in the mix?” I turn the volume on the mix down, and it’s Bob playing “Like a Virgin” on acoustic guitar. Then he was like, “Hey, Arthur, can’t we do a song like Madonna or Prince?”

The famous moment everyone brings up with Empire Burlesque, him wanting to sound more like Prince.

He was very funny. It wasn’t heavy. I mean, I felt under pressure, but he never gave me any shit. He was pretty mellow.

At the time, I was doing a lot of cocaine. Two years later, I got clean. So I was doing that, and he was drinking a lot of rum, which I didn’t realize. He was hiding the rum, and I was hiding the coke. In my book, my Dylan chapter is called “Rum and Coke.”